The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com and Amazon.com. Would you like some cake? I'm not supposed to. Don't worry so much about not supposed to; live a little. And that's from the movie Show Galat. And don't you wish someone in your childhood had said that to you about something that was healthy to do, but that you felt like you shouldn't? There are rules and regulations, and you'll get punished if you play the piano at the wrong time, or if you run and jump and play when Mom wants you to sit still, just sit still. And what about as an adult? Wouldn't you like someone to say, live a little, enjoy your life, and massages are part of enjoying our lives? Taking the time to nurture our bodies is part of the joy of life, and many of us never consider having a massage.

With me to discuss massages is Gretchen Blaker Mason, who is a member of the Center for Sexual Health team at the Psychological Centers in Rhode Island. She's a licensed mental health counselor specializing in sexual and relational health, and she's been a licensed massage therapist for 15 years. And Gretchen also teaches human sexuality at the University of Rhode Island. Welcome, Gretchen.

Thank you, Alan.

So Gretchen, I'm wondering, do you ever use massage to help couples stay connected?

Yes, as a psychotherapist, I do work with couples, teaching them self-awareness and how to connect with each other emotionally and physically through touch. The intention and quality of touch are so important. So sometimes it's not just techniques, but it's how people connect and touch one another. And there's so much information that happens, and it's conveyed before skin-to-skin contact occurs. A lot of information is energetic and nonverbal and through the body. I often share the definition of mind that Dan Siegel presents: the mind is an embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information within oneself and between people.

Okay, the way I think of it—I'm thinking of visuals as you're talking, Gretchen, and I'm thinking that you can see a guy grab a woman's hand, and it's just mechanical. There's no feeling, no thought. Or you can see a guy reach out for his loved one in the most tender gesture. The feeling comes through the look on the face, the eye contact, or even a kiss. A kiss can just be a peck, you know, an unthinking peck, "Bye, honey." Or it can be, even if it's just saying goodbye in the morning, it can be really psychologically connecting, saying "I love you" with your eyes, saying "I love you" with your whole person. And that's a quality that you really need to nurture. We're not born with that.

So if you're doing this with massage, I know my husband and I have difficulty with massage because we both like to be, guess what, the receivers. So, you know, I'll ask him, "Can you rub my shoulders?" And he'll rub them, and I'll say, "Oh, that is so perfect," and then it will end a half a minute later. Or he'll ask, and I'll rub his. Once, I gave him a facial massage. I've never done that in my life, and he said it completely released a headache he had. Maybe it was also the psychological value of that too. He said, "A pounding headache." He's looking at me now. So how can couples use that massage to better their relationship?

Hey, I got to interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is: The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it on Amazon.com. The Selfish Path to Romance, that is interesting.

How can couples use that massage to better their relationship?

I think that's so wonderful that you and your husband give to one another and take care of each other.

Well, we don't. I want more advice. We did it once and twice, and we get married years. Hearing you talk about that, it's really an amazing connecting and nurturing experience. You're so right about the quality of touch. It can really make such a difference. So being distracted or just a peck on the lips before leaving—it’s really learning to become present-centered. That's really important, and really tuning into what each person is conveying through their touch and being curious about getting to know one another. If you've been married for years, you might just assume that you know everything there is to know about each other, but there's a quality of mindfulness and presence and a curiosity. So we don't assume that we know. Letting each moment be new.

So really taking the more you bring your attention, if you're giving a massage, to your hands and the tissue resistance and what you're feeling.

Yeah, that is my husband's hand, right?

Yeah, and it's really a fascinating process, and there's so much information. When I'm giving a 75-minute massage, the time goes by so fast because I'm really present. I think that that's another element too. It's more about being and paying attention, and a lot of times can go by pretty quickly when you're in that state of presence.

Really. Yeah, and that's a problem because, you know, I've been to massages where the massage therapist is quiet, and I get wonderfully lost in my own thoughts and world and the feelings and the sensations. With others, I talk about the kid, and it's a different experience. I'm not there; I'm having the mechanical work done on my muscles, but I'm not milking the experience. The idea of, if you're in a couple situation, to really milk the experience—to not have your mind elsewhere—and certainly not to have a duty focus. "Oh, I have to rub his back." I have to, you know, I'm not going to be there. I'm going to be resentful. I'm going to be thinking about what I want to do afterward. Whereas, you know, I think of, I want to know his body. I want to understand him. I want to give him feelings that are good, and I want to be able to be open to receiving those feelings if he gives me a massage. Hint, hint—you're not supposed to use the hint, hint method, are you? But all that information does get conveyed. When you say, when you have the intention—all those positive intentions get conveyed through your touch. If you're thinking, "You know, I'm so tired. I don't want to be doing this," right, it's conveyed too.

Now, there's a problem, though, because many times when people, you know, a wife or a husband says, "You know, I'll give you a massage," you think, "Oh no, you know it's going to be a demand for sex after the massage." I give him one, but he's not going to give me one. How do you overcome those types of problems where you feel like there's a payoff at the end?

Right? Right?

Well, you know, again, if that's the expectation, and if it's really about, "I'll do this so I can get that," that's not going to feel very good. So going in with open expectations—that there's not some other agenda—taking off the pressure, there's no demand to have sex afterward. If it happens, it will only happen if we both want it. If we both don't want it, or if one of us doesn't want it, then enjoy the massage.

Right? And that can be so deeply satisfying and connecting and pleasurable when both people are really present.

So it's the expectations. If the husband’s going in and I’m sorry, husbands or partners, and they’re thinking, "Oh good, you know, I'll give her a massage and I'll get the payoff," then he’s going to be angry or frustrated or upset at the end. But if they both go in just for a massage, and if it leads to anything else, it's only because both of them feel aroused or are enjoying it—not if he goes, if he or she, it could be the wife too, goes in with expectations of just enjoying the moment, as I know you've said before, just enjoying that, then that will be best.

Listen, how can people get in touch with you? Do you have a website that they can reach you if they want to?

This is Gretchen Blaker Mason.

Thank you. Yes, I do. My website is healthofsoulstherapy.com.

Okay, H, A, L, S, O, S, A, L.

Thank you, Gretchen. For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this.

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner and co-author Dr. Edwin Locke. Another way to nourish your relationship is by voluntarily helping with the cooking, dishes, laundry, child care, shopping, yard work, and repairs. This, of course, makes your partner feel supported and less tired. Again, find out what kind of help is most wanted and appreciated.

Another way to nourish your relationship is by touching your partner. Touching is a very important form of communication. It expresses and promotes intimacy. Where does your partner like to be touched? How does your partner like to be touched, such as holding hands, giving back rubs, giving light kisses on the neck, cheek, lips, or hand? These are all ways of making your partner feel loved and visible.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy The Selfish Path to Romance on Amazon.com.