The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

(this is raw unedited text transcribed directly from the audio)

Dr. Kenner: Gina, welcome to the show.

Gina: Hi. Thank you.

Dr. Kenner: Tell me your situation and your question?

Gina: Basically I had an issue with my boyfriend still being best friends with his ex.

Dr. Kenner: Your boyfriends is best friends with whom?

Gina: With an ex-girlfriend.

Dr. Kenner: Oh okay. With an ex.

Gina: An ex-girlfriend, yes. That he actually has known her for over 12 years and they were friends before they dated and he dated her for six years, broke up a year and a half ago now. I started seeing him five months ago and discovered a couple of months into the relationship that the dynamics of their relationship were what I perceived to be as very unhealthy.

Dr. Kenner: Give me one visual. One of the ones that pains you most.

Gina: Well, what was happening was, I discovered that she called him everyday and was also inviting him to spend time together with just her. They have alone time together. And wasn’t factoring me into the friendship, even after she discovered that I was upset over it and feeling insecure and jealous over it.

Dr. Kenner: You’re how old?

Gina: I am 31.

Dr. Kenner: And your boyfriend is in the same ballpark?

Gina: Yes.

Dr. Kenner: Have you been married before or any kids?

Gina: None.

Dr. Kenner: So this is a first romance for you? I’m sure it’s not a first if you’re in your 30s.

Gina: First real serious, like first relationship where I felt like I truly connected and could actually feel like I was meant for this person and I truly don’t know. Just to feel like he’s perfect in every way and then find out this was one major imperfection.

Dr. Kenner: But he’s deceiving you. What did he tell you about the relationship?

Gina: No, he’s always been honest from the beginning of the relationship.

Dr. Kenner: And he said what?

Gina: He did early on in the relationship when I discovered that he was still friends with his ex, we discussed the history. He was very open and honest and said they were still friends. I just didn’t realize the extent of it. I didn’t realize the dynamic. I figured when he said they were still friends that it was talking every so often, that eventually I’d meet her in the same circles.

Dr. Kenner: But this is an intimate friendship. Not only have they been intimate because they dated for six years and were friends before that, but if I was seeing a guy – I’ve been happily married for I forget how many years, I’m on the spot here – and if I was seeing a guy on the side that used to be an old friend, and telling him what’s going on in my life, telling him about my day, what I did, then who am I not telling that to, or who am I less likely to tell that to?

Gina: Right.

Dr. Kenner: Your partner. An intimate relationship has an exclusivity around it. Now, whether or not he’s having sex with her, I mean, that’s another big question mark isn’t it?

Gina: That’s the thing. I don’t question that. My big issue is trusting her and my perception of her. His friends and family felt that she was toxic, feel that she’s keeping him on the backburner, and although she’s been with someone else for a year now, I still tend to believe what everyone else thinks of her and feels like he’s blinded to her.

Dr. Kenner: What’s toxic about her, Gina?

Gina: They feel she only calls when she needs him, is only calling him because she is keeping him on the back burner, is using him, manipulating him, and after her actions, after I spoke to her on the phone, after he’s expressed to her how I felt, and she still didn’t make an effort to include me and factor me into the friendship, I tend to believe that she is selfish.

Dr. Kenner: She’s self-destructive.

Gina: Not really being a true best friend to him. It’s hard to believe she’s really his best friend if she didn’t care to meet me.

Dr. Kenner: There’s always sexual tension. They dated before. They know each other intimately.

Gina: He says that part of the relationship is dead and that the love and care he has for her is out of friendship now.

Dr. Kenner: It sounds like he needs to make a decision now.

Gina: That’s where I’m at.

Dr. Kenner: it’s in his hands and I know we can blame her, call her toxic, but he’s not passive in this situation. He needs to make a decision. How much of a value are you to him? Is he keeping her on the back burner? In case things don’t work out with you, because you have a relatively new relationship. If he’s doing that, he’ll have a split focus and he won’t be able to invest himself fully in the relationship with you.

Gina: Well, he tries to tell me that he is working on distancing himself and that he just wants to tell me now that he’d like a few months to eventually be able to cut her out of his life, for us, but I feel like so much damage has been done and I feel so resentful toward him.

Dr. Kenner: Notice it’s toward him now. That’s proper. It’s not toward her. It means she can be the best person or the worst person. He’s the one that’s in charge. Nobody can force him to have a relationship.

Gina: But why do I want so much for him to see her as negative as well? Why do I feel this need for him to say, “You know what? She was wrong?”

Dr. Kenner: He’s going to have a very different … he’s got many different memories. I don’t know what she served, what she provided in his life that makes him still keep her on the back burner.

Gina: On some level, he said that’s all he knew. I told him I feel like she’s an addiction on some level to you and you couldn’t let go of that. He admitted that he hadn’t really started moving on until I came into his life, and at the same time it makes me feel good that it feels like I’m the only one he wants to call when he wakes up in the morning and before he goes to bed at night. He wants to spend every day with me, but it’s not enough because I feel like she’s still there. He wants to still be a comfort to her.

Dr. Kenner: I’ve worked with men who have had like three different women going at once, and they just couldn’t make a commitment to anyone and they had to make sure they were loved by someone and it was there to be a backup. This may not be the case with him. It may be that he’s still severing ties with her emotionally. But if you just –

Gina: He says he just needs time.

Dr. Kenner: But if you just let him go on like this, you’ll never get anywhere. And you won’t be serving your needs. So if you tell him, listen, you’ve got to, it’s totally in your ballpark. If you want me, I want an exclusive relationship. If it’s going to take a few months, let’s break it off for a while, while we make that spilt.

Gina: I tried that, but he feels like I’m now turning my back on him and cutting myself off and my love.

Dr. Kenner: No, don’t look at it through his perspective. Say, “This is important enough to me. I so want the relationship with you. I don’t want it on these terms and I don’t want to start off our relationship this way. It seems like you’ve got some unfinished business with her. Take the opportunity. See if she’s good for you. If you do want to stay with her, fine. If you want – “

Gina: I did tell him. I said, “If you feel like there’s real friendship there and it can be just really friendship and nothing more –

Dr. Kenner: But I don’t think that’s possible. As much as I’d like to say that’s the case, given the dynamics and the toxicity that you talk about.

Gina: It just feels like I’m not trusting him.

Dr. Kenner: We’re right at the end. I wish we had more time to talk about this. You need to be true to yourself, and decide under what conditions would you be willing to stay with him. And I wish you a lot of success. There are other men, as painful. I know you’ve searched long and hard. I’m Dr. Ellen Kenner on the Rational Basis of Happiness.

Gina: Thank you.

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Movie clip
Female: No. Really? I’ve never had a serious boyfriend. I suppose I like my gents more on the manly side. Was that a little swan you made?
Male: No, it was a B-52.

Dr. Kenner: That’s from Frasier. That’s Daphne of course, speaking with Niles, yes Niles. I’m Dr. Ellen Kenner and you’re listening to the Rational Basis of Happiness. What happens when you’re trying to meet someone and you want to impress them and you do things like Niles was doing, he was making a little swan and he turns it into a B-52 bomber? You know, you’re trying to impress the other person, rather than just relax, enjoy the experience, and see what they’re like. Because you should put yourself in the driver’s seat. You’re trying to choose a romantic partner and you want to do it from your own perspective. Are they bringing to this relationship something I would enjoy or not?