The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com and Amazon.com.

I'd like a petite filet mignon, very lean, not so lean that it lacks flavor, but not so fat that it leaves drippings on the plate. And I don't want it cooked just lightly seared on either side. Pink in the middle, not true pink, but not a mauve either. Something in between, bearing in mind the slightest error either way, and it's ruined. Okay, that's from Fraser, that's Niles, and he certainly is a perfectionist. If you go in either direction, it's ruined. And do you have a touch of perfectionism? You might be trying to get a paper done or a report done, and you just spend so much time preparing it perfectly that you leave no time at all to write it. Maybe you're having company over and you're cleaning the house, you're dusting, you're doing everything in the house, and you're fussing over the table, and you don't leave enough time for yourself to cook the meal properly. What is perfectionism? And do you have a touch of it? Joining me now to shine some light on perfectionism is Jean Maroney, the president of Thinking Directions. Jean teaches professionals how to solve problems faster, how to make better decisions, and how to get projects finished by teaching them how to use targeted thinking to make better use of what they already know. Welcome, Jean, thank you for having me, Ellen.

So I've always thought I've had a touch of perfectionism. What is it? Well, perfectionism is a syndrome. When you see high quality as an out-of-context absolute. So Niles wants this filet mignon done a certain way. Price, no object. He's willing to throw it away as completely ruined unless it comes out just right. Right? Mob, right? Exactly. And when we set out to do this, if you set out to have the house be perfect before the dinner party, if you get too out of context on making the house perfect, you can actually lose sight of the priorities. You can lose sight of whether clean is clean enough, and it means that you actually can't pursue your other goals. You never get the meal cooked right, or you don't take into account how much time or cost is involved. I mean, the cost can be an emotional cost. I know many times when I say I've had a touch of it, I will rob myself of sleep way too often because I'm so involved or enthused or excited or I see another angle to something, and I have to have it. And you gave me a very good skill once, which is just two words: scaling back, and that's guided me much. When I use that, it's very helpful. So does that, when you talk about perfectionism, will you differentiate that from perfection? Because many people say, just don't be perfect, then don't worry about it.

Right? I think perfectionism is a very misunderstood problem because people often say, just lower your standards. But that's not what the actual issue is because you don't want to have the solution to a problem be to lower your standards. Having high standards is a good thing, but you do have to choose what standards you're going to use in different situations. My husband, Harry Binswanger, wrote an article on perfection, and he gave a wonderful definition of what perfection is.

Hey, I gotta interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Ellen will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is: The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it at Amazon.com. Hmm. The Selfish Path to Romance—that is interesting. My husband, Harry Binswanger, wrote an article on perfection, and he gave a wonderful definition of what perfection is. He says it's flawlessly complete satisfaction of a standard of value. If you got that, it's flawlessly complete satisfaction of some standard of value. So, for example, a clean house for a party might be that the floors are vacuumed, the bathrooms have been touched up, the rooms have been dusted, and there’s toilet paper in the back, and that would be the standard that you would set. If those things are done, the house is perfect. Now, yeah, you know there might be for spring cleaning, you'd have a higher standard, and it might include vacuuming the drapes and maybe dusting the ceiling, right? But that's not the standard that you would set for a dinner party. And it's important to have the idea that you set a standard, and then when you meet it, you're perfect. And that objectivity about how high you need to go to be perfect really makes it a reward and a benefit to have standards instead of a whip and a curse to have standards, right?

And I think it wasn't it Ayn Rand who said that perfect is the best of what's reasonably possible or what's possible?

Well, I don't know if she said that. I'm not familiar with that particular quote. I think it's important not to put “possible” in there because it is possible to make the house cleaner.

Oh, that is true. The dinner, right? Right. In reason, you need an objective standard of what is really a proper standard for this, and you set that standard, and then you meet that, and you set that objectively, and you can change that. For example, if it's a last-minute dinner party, it may be that only the bathrooms get a quick check.

Right, right? That's a very good example.

Well, it's your sample. Thank you for elaborating. So what thinking skills do any of us need to overcome perfectionism?

Well, I think there are two kinds of skills that you need. One of them is on the cognitive side. You need to be able to think about quality in terms of standards that you set. And if you really want something to be high quality, think in terms of having a version that you improve. You know, a lot of times people treat, for example, in writing an essay, that the first thing that comes out has to be perfect, and that's too hard to get the first time you do something to be a very top-notch result. It's actually very difficult. It's much easier to get, say, a draft written and then improve it. And in fact, if you look in business, all high-quality items are achieved through a process of quality control, where they look and see what the defects are and then fix the biggest problem, and then go back and fix the next one, and then go back. And it's an iterative process. And the reason the way that you get a very high-quality result is by doing something multiple times, and each time making it better. And I think recognizing that gives you a lot more realism about what is the standard you should set.

And that's much easier on your mind to know you. The second type is the emotional baggage.

Yes, I think that a lot of times perfectionism is caused by some kind of emotional baggage.

And what kind of... yeah, yeah.

What would be three examples of that?

Well, it's any kind of self-defeating belief you have. It could be some kind of second-handedness, like other people are going to judge me poorly if my house isn't perfectly clean. It could be some kind of selflessness, like I don't deserve to sleep if this isn't going to be perfect. Or it could be some kind of emotionalism, like I can't be happy unless I have, say, an 18-course meal for the dinner. And if you put your emotions or other people's views or things other than yourself above your living your life, you can get yourself into big trouble, and it distorts your decisions about where you should spend your time.

So with the emotional part, you want to be able to analyze your emotions, not just go like Niles. Just has to have this perfect steak. He needs to be able to look at what's behind that drive to have that steak just so—that was crazy, that filet mignon. What does it mean to him, right? And it might bring him back into childhood. Might, you know some it could, right?

It's a process of self-analysis to figure out why it's so do or die to have that, as opposed to set a standard that is doable and reasonable in the time available.

Right? And if people want more information on selflessness or second-handedness or many, many, many topics, I highly recommend going to Jean Maroney’s website. Your website. Can you give your website and contact information?

I'd be delighted to, and just to make sure it's how to avoid selflessness and second-handedness. The site is ThinkingDirections.com.

And you can email me at jm@thinkingdirections.com.

I have a free email newsletter. You'd be welcome to sign up, and I have some articles and things there that may be of some use to you. Highly, highly recommend it. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jean.

Thanks for having me, Ellen.

And this is Dr. Alan Kenner on The Rational Basis of Happiness.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com, and please listen to this. Here’s an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by Doctors Kenner and Locke.

How we communicate and sabotage our relationships. Here are a few examples of ineffective communication techniques:

Threats: If you don't apologize now, I'm packing my bags and leaving. Or if we don't have sex soon, I'm going to find someone else.

Global language: You never listen to me, or you always manage to be late.

Predicting an unhappy future: You'll never make anything of yourself.

Lecturing: You should call your mother more often. I know she wasn't a good mother, but she needs you now, and it's wrong to ignore her needs.

You should put your own issues aside and be more caring.

Catastrophizing: I saw you smile at that sales clerk. You don't love me anymore.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy the book at Amazon.com.