The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at Doctorkenner.com

Jenny, welcome to the show.

Hi, Dr. Kenner. Hi,

what's your question?

I have just gotten out of an abusive relationship, and I wanted to share something that's been going on with me and ask you a question.

Oh, certainly, go ahead.

I have to give you a little bit of history. I've been married for 23 years. I have three children. I'm a successful nurse. My relationship turned abusive and hurtful and devastating through the years, and I just thought I was going to die. I was just crushed, and I tried everything I could to keep that marriage going and keep it alive, but everything I tried failed, and

the kids were observing all of this. Were they young at the time?

Yeah, you know, the beginning years were good, but as the years went by in the marriage, it got more abusive. Your husband got more abusive, right? He has a very stressful job, and he would just come home angry every day, and he wouldn't communicate. And I didn't think that, you know, I wanted to save the relationship, but you really can't save it. And I did go to counseling, I tried to look at myself to see what was wrong, because he kept saying I had problems. And as I went through counseling, I realized that it really wasn't me.

It wasn't you at all, no.

It wasn't my fault. And I prepared to leave, and I was devastated, and didn't think I could do it. And I left my home. One of my children came with me. I had to get a new job. I had like, four major changes happen, and I was here in an apartment in the city for—it's been a year and a half now—and I'll tell you, I continued my counseling. I went through a divorce care class. I am so happy. I am back to myself again, strong, laughing, you know, participating in life. I have friends again, you know, I—

I wish you could see my smile right now, Jenny, because that’s exactly the case. If you try to save the unsavable, you put yourself in a terrible situation.

Well, and that's what happened. I mean, I considered—even like for one second, I considered ending my life. I'm a strong girl, and I felt like I didn’t even want to live anymore. And I'll tell you now, I'm just so grateful for every day. But there's a little twist in my story, and my question comes in at my job. I work in a hospital, and I have a lot of co-workers, and there's this one man that I've known for five years that I worked with, just on a friendly level. And I never cheated. I never was involved with another man. I was totally devoted to my husband. Well, this friend of mine, we had talked about my divorce as I was going through it, and he's trying to divorce his wife as well through the past years. And his history is—his wife is bipolar and on a research med, and they have children, and I was never interested in him, never thought anything about him but a friendship. But after eight months ago, it was just like we were being drawn together like a magnet, and we started a friendship together, more than just co-workers. Just really, we can talk to each other, we share the same interests, and we’re building this trust. And he's, you know, got his papers ready to file and he's ready to go. But again, he's coming from an abusive relationship as well. And he has kids. He has three children as well. We both have three kids. Okay? So he has been trying to go slow with his divorce, because last time he went to file, she had a breakdown and was hospitalized. So he's been trying to work with her on it, and he has made progress. In the meantime, this relationship starts forming, and we do have strong morals, and we're trying to fight the way we feel towards each other, but we have this magnet drawing us to one another, and we don't have any guilt, and I don't understand why we don't feel guilty. We have tried to stay on a friendship basis, but it's beginning to go farther than that.

Okay, so you've crossed the line. It's become an affair. It was an emotional affair for a while, meaning instead of this co-worker going home and talking with his wife about what's going on during the day and sharing those little personal tidbits, he would share them with you. You were his surrogate—

Wife. Yeah? Because she won’t, she doesn’t pay attention to it. Okay?

So your question is, why don't you have guilt?

Yeah, and how could this happen?

Meaning, because you're doing something against your moral code. Under my moral code, you are exploring the possibility of one of the top values in life—a romantic partner—after having had a non-romantic partner for many years, an abusive partner. You're exploring this totally valid, wonderful value with a man who's currently got other obligations. So that throws a monkey wrench into things, because on one hand, he's deceiving his wife. Could he deceive you in the future? People do think that, you know, if he's good, he has to live a duplicitous life—a double life—with his family, with his kids. If he slips and says your name in the middle of the night, that's a problem, the secretiveness he's got to cover. So he's training his mind how to lie well, and I don't think that's good. Plus, you're training yourself to do that with him, so I think he's in a terrible situation because—

Hey, I got to interrupt this, because we’ve got to pay some bills. Thirty seconds, that’s it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back. Romance.

I wish I knew more about what girls want from a relationship. Well, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where’s that ad I saw? Here it is: The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it at amazon.com. Huh? The Selfish Path to Romance—that is interesting.

I think he's in a terrible situation, because I have a lot of empathy for him. If she’s genuinely very difficult, and I don’t let people off the hook for bipolar. I went to see Jane Pauley speak about how bipolar is a mental illness, and it’s an illness we should treat like any other medical illness. Well, that’s not the case. It is true that in some cases of mental disorder, some are caused by brain tumors, brain lesions, or problems that are beyond a person’s control. You know, if somebody—but I would say in the vast majority of cases, people do not have the right moral code growing up, and they don’t have the right choice-making apparatus to run their own lives. So they make a series of bad choices. They compound it, they feel guilty, they get depressed. Then they say, “The heck with this, I don’t want to feel depressed anymore,” so they go hypomanic. And so I think some people own a piece, if not a lot, of the responsibility for where they’re at. Does that mean that we blame them, or that we give them the skills to help them? I like giving people skills. So I think he’s in a bind, because most of the medical community will say, “Oh, poor woman. You know, the divorce settlement will be awful. If she’s got bipolar, you know he’ll be carrying her for life.” But I think he has a right to absolutely leave that relationship. I think you want to be cautious because you have invested so much time in rebuilding yourself as a delightful, happy person with a smile on your face, and you’ve got all your other pieces in order. You have a new job, you have a new home. You’ve got a new place. Probably had to repair some things with the kids. You’ve got friends, so you’ve got all that going for you. Well, you’re looking at one other value, which is a top value—a romantic relationship. So you want to see, is he really the man for me? Is he on a rebound? Is he using me? Men need to use a woman to get out of a relationship more than women used to use men. Typically. I consider that you want to be a very acute, very good judge. That doesn’t mean you become paranoid, because he may be the partner for you. I don’t know him. You have so much to learn about him. And even though you connect initially, I can tell you stories where I connected with people and it didn’t work out. When the honeymoon phase is over, as they call it, it’s very different. So I would totally put yourself first. Value yourself. You may want to stand off a bit while he gets his divorce. It will make it easier for him, too. I know people who have been in your situation, they put their relationship on hold—put a moratorium on it for a little while while he goes through a divorce. Then he doesn’t have to lie. Well, he will still be lying about the past, but he’s not currently in a relationship. It will simplify his life. If your relationship is strong enough, then you can connect afterward, and then you’ll see that he’s not just using you—that you are there. Now, that’s tempting because you’re at work, which also complicates factors. People can be very professional in their workplace, but if I tried to pretend that I didn’t love my husband and you saw us together for eight hours, how long would it take for you to detect that there’s something a little more than just a friendship there?

Not long.

All you need to see is a little flinch of my eye, or a little warmth in my muscle, in my face, and that would tell it all, or a little handhold that just—you know, a tapping on his shoulder that lasted a little too long. So people are not dumb around you, and they usually love romance, and they usually love gossip. So I would suspect that as much as you want to pride yourself on that, you would have to be a skilled FBI or CIA agent to be able to pull this off really well. So I would suspect word does get out. People find out. Things get disclosed without your knowing them. So listen, thank you very much for your call, Jenny, and give me a call back sometime to let me know how things go.

Okay, thank you for taking the call.

Oh, thank you, Jenny. Bye. Bye.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to Doctorkenner.com, and please listen to this. NAD,

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance by Dr. Ellen Kenner.

If your partner just doesn't talk or want to listen, even after repeated attempts to communicate, they might have narcissistic tendencies, such as holding the premise that you are supposed to listen, but not vice versa—a one-way street relationship. Such a partner will never make an ideal soulmate or anyone. Partners also fail to communicate because they are trying to hide their true or deepest selves. They may fear something about themselves, or perhaps they have no authentic selves. Your partner may not talk much simply due to shyness. You can do a lot to bring your partner out of his or her shell by being warm, open, and encouraging. Another reason that your partner doesn’t make communication a conscious priority is that he or she may not consider you important. Translation: your partner does not really love you—a painful discovery.

You can download chapter one for free at Doctorkenner.com, and you can buy the book at amazon.com.